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130/30 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 16909 Location: Sunny California
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: 130/30 |
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Good work on that, Bill. Nice to see one (three) of those put into practice on terms we all can understand. Couldn't help notice the 75/75 is racing ahead again--and has yet to out-perform. Yet to come?
It's funny how slightly favoring the "winners" so easily discombobulates the system--which is it's weakness and strength. _________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
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130/30 Replies |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 16909 Location: Sunny California
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Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | While quant managers might like to think that three laws govern 99% of investor behavior and thereby drive securities prices, he says, "we're lucky" if 99 laws explain even 3% of investor behavior. |
Client flows knocking these about.
| Quote: | There are good ideas that are badly implemented, and there are bad ideas that are, well, bad ideas.
It's a matter of debate which construct—if either—best describes 130/30 mutual funds, a leveraging strategy that seemed to be the next hot thing just a few years ago. |
http://seekingalpha.com/article/223687-more-evidence-of-how-hard-it-is-to-beat-the-market?source=yahoo _________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
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rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 16909 Location: Sunny California
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rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 16909 Location: Sunny California
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rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 16909 Location: Sunny California
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting that they're not shorting HiYield anymore. _________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
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HenryTo Site Admin


Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 11707 Location: Los Angeles, California
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HenryTo Site Admin


Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 11707 Location: Los Angeles, California
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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For those who want to dive further into 130/30 strategies, this MSCI Barra paper (starting on page 9) discusses the impact of active risk on the optimal level of leverage in such "active extension strategies" (such as 130/30), as well as how changes in market conditions can affect the performance of such strategies:
http://www.mscibarra.com/resources/horizonQ12008.pdf |
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CCI Rider Newbie

Joined: 24 Jan 2008 Posts: 1
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: What might be wrong with backtested TA systems... |
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Reposted from the Members Only TMG Board...
One explanation about what might be wrong with backtested TA systems...
“Last night I was reading a bi-weekly newsletter written by Tom McClellan, a well known and respect technician, and something he discussed smacked me square in the forehead. This is something I should have been thinking about over the past 6 months.
On July 5, 2007 the SEC eliminated the Uptick Rule. The rule stated that you could not sell a stock short unless and until there had been an upward change in price, an uptick, which would keep the sellers from driving the stock down simply by shorting it. That rule had been in effect since 1934, and was intended to help prevent some of the kinds of dislocations that occurred in the crash of 1929.
Subsequent to July 5, 2007, we have had a very different stock market than the one seen during the entire look-back period of my studies, dating back to 1993. For example, from 1993 through July 5, 2007, there were 11 "rare one-day buy signals," which pop up on my screen when the market internals wash out to an extreme. That's less than one washout day per year. But since July 5, 2007 there have been 10 more of those rare one-day washout sessions. That's a rate of almost 20 per year, more than 20 times the rate during the prior 14 years.
I have been aware that the efficacy of the System's signals had deteriorated since last July, which is why we have been less active in trading the System's signals. But this new, if tardy, recognition of the Uptick Rule is terrifically important. It means that there is reason to expect that the change in the market since July will be ongoing, and that, unless the Uptick Rule is re-established, we can expect the market NOT to revert to its former behavior.
Re-establishing more positive trading performance will now likely require re-vamping our methodologies with an eye toward understanding how the market is likely to behave in the absence of the Uptick Rule.” - Credits to the author, Unknown
My take is that in the absence of the Uptick Rule, the bears' short orders can go through unimpeded, which means that when a stock or ETF has reached whatever level they think is high enough, they can Short at will, and unless there is unusually heavy Short covering going on by them taking their profits if a true rally seems to be materializing, that can quickly overcome any upward momentum by the Long buyers, and also that if they are looking to Short a stock, they don't have to wait for the rollover when the buyers diminish and/or start taking profits to jump in with both feet.
In view of this, I guess TMG isn't the only TA-based system that is having its problems. It always seems like a no-brainer in hindsight, but intial testing of TMG with tighter Stops and lower OB and OS thresholds (since the absence of the Uptick Rule favors the Bears) shows some significant improvements since last July. |
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nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2408
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nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2408
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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More on the costs of leverage involved in 1x0/x0 funds.
http://thedealsleuth.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/negative-alpha-is-built-into-13030-funds/
| Quote: | It is the leverage that creates this effect; therefore, an unleveraged long/short fund does not have this problem.
The exact amount of negative alpha depends on the extent of the long short portion, the interest rate spread, and the amount of short sale proceeds withheld by the broker. In our experience, the interest rate paid by brokers on the proceeds of short positions, known as short rebate in industry parlance, is highly variable and can be as low as 0%, while the portion of short proceeds held as collateral by the broker can be as high as 100%. It depends on the bargaining power of the client, and willingness of the clients’ management to bargain. |
While my retail assumption of paying 10% annual interest and not getting any of the short rebate may be a bit extreme, it seems clear that retail will be paying for the shorting (and long extension). Interestingly, it seems that fund products based on 1x0/x0 will take money from retail as well, even though they don't have to. From what I've read, it seems only well-connected but unaffiliated hedge funds get anywhere near the full benefit of the rebate.
I also disagree conceptually with the long percent minus the short percent equaling the "beta." Beta's a regression-line slope, and one could be 130/zero net 130% long with a low beta to the S&P 500 or total market index, with the right strategy. If the short strategy is profitable over a long period of time, since the stock market also is profitable over a long period of time, it stands to reason that the beta of the short extension is positive. Etc. I'm sick and tired of the misuse and corruption of the words "alpha" and "beta." End of rant. _________________ I haven’t seen a beatin’ like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose. |
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nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2408
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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You could do some back-of-the-envelope adjustments to the total return if you wanted to. You'd have to reduce the drag on each extension and also reduce the risk-free assumption, as well. I don't think it would make more than minor changes to the performance, and probably wouldn't change anybody's preference ranking of the three systems.
I checked last month, and my broker would be charging a sliding scale based on assets invested, and that scale includes 10% in its range. I don't think 10% is the "perfect assumption," but I think it's a reasonable assumption for retail. Somebody with institutional support could probably make interest money on the shorts, or at least not lose money, since the margin deal they'd cut is better, and they might actually be able to hold the cash at risk-free rates. Typically I think a retail trader is paying interest money to the broker for the privilege of shorting, and not holding the cash.
Yes, you could replace part of the long or short exposure with the SP emini at 20:1 leverage, and the leverage would be the benefit, counterbalancing the loss of dividends by not using the SPY and the loss of relative outperformance by not selecting high-scoring stocks from the model. That's something to look at in a future installment, I guess. _________________ I haven’t seen a beatin’ like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose. |
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rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 16909 Location: Sunny California
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Would you care to expand on the margin costs of these strategies investor vis-a-vis institutional investor.
You meant the 25% that was margined to the 50%=75%. We're gonna have to change that 10% with a 2% FF on deck.
You can do your 30% long basis the SP emini at 5% down instead of 50%. _________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
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nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2408
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks!
It's good to be able to put this kind of research into the reach of serious retail investors. I think too many of them are unaware of how much material is out there ... _________________ I haven’t seen a beatin’ like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose. |
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