Soros

HenryTo · Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:46 pm Post subject: Soros

Got this from the wallstreebear.com website:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/1/132047.shtml

This is dated in February but it is interesting anyway - if Soros is to mount a "campaign" (so to speak) then the technical conditions are probably right for him to do this right now. Not only is the guy worth $9 billion, but his Quantum Funds probably has $15 to $20 billion in assets that he can ask his managers to utilize.

Comments welcome.

chestnutstime · Senior Poster Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 89

Soros' Conversations with Judy Woodruff reinforce his above views.

Transcript: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=af7Qc.XTIcsw

Interview Video: http://www.bloomberg.com/avp/avp.htm?clipSRC=mms://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/vrYRnlw1Rv.Y.asf

Chestnut

mtvk · Veteran Poster Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 242

From Soros video get the point: "every where bubble".

dknoester

George Soros, of Soros Fund Management, speaks to Chrystia Freeland, US Managing Editor, in this special to View from the Markets, with the launch of his book, "The New Paradigm for Finacial Markets: The Credit Crisis of 2008 and What It Means".

Part 1: The Credit Crunch and Bear Stearns
Part 2: Commodities, Basel 2, China and the USA
Part 3: US dollar, Obama and US leadership

http://www.ft.com/cms/893ac9c8-757e-11dc-b7cb-0000779fd2ac.html?_i_referralObject=702070645&_i_referrer=staf&fromSearch=n

DK
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nodoodahs · Moderator Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2408

With insurance, it's voluntary; with that governmental backstop, it's using money taken by force from others. The Cattlemen's Museum just points out (again) what I pointed out earlier:

rffrydr · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject:

Oh?...there's not a thing you can do in business without trying to control for the unexpected, from fire insurance on your factory to sitting behind the wheel of your delivery truck. And the fuel that goes in it... and the delivery guy who goes in that. You couldn't run an oil fleet without it.

Then there's your "debt" which has to be insured six ways to sunday and your profits which would never go onto the next deal if your bank wasn't insured.... And then there's the free markets logical conclusion: collusion. Monopoly. It all breaks down and fear has to be controlled. When it breaks down badly, across all the spectrum you're left, like Mellon, telling the starving you'll get your food, just a matter of time.

No, no matter the inefficiencies and injustices, we all want and need that big backstop there in Washington. That's even true in Texas: check out the Cattlemen's Museum in Ft. Worth and see how those most rugged of rugged individualists bleated for the Federal teet during when they found out that "rain did not follow the plow" (one of the all-time great "bull" mantras at a top).

link
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nodoodahs · Moderator Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2408

Mortgage insurers can be part of a free market, and their pain-spreading is based on voluntary participation. We have to remember that the need to hold certain proportions of bonds of certain ratings is applied by GOVERNMENTS and REGULATORS, which applies a higher inclination to fraud on these ratings; isn't that part of today's trouble?

In a caveat emptor world, the ratings wouldn't matter, so downgrades wouldn't matter as much, either, since they wouldn't promote forced selling to comply with regs. Additionally, some parties thought they were being responsible through sticking with grading ranges; in a world where the buyer bewares, they might have been tempted to look at the finances a bit more closely for some of these insurers.

An attempt to save pain (dramatically lower interest rates in the early 2000s) actually just delayed and redistributed the pain; meddling.

We also have to keep in mind that much of the market is reacting to meddling in other markets; we have a litigious society, but who writes the laws? Liability insurance exists in part as a market reaction to meddling in another arena. One of several examples.

No question, without meddling in the markets, things would be smaller and more local; especially without the "legal entity" of corporations. Whether that's "better" or not is a normative discussion that I'd be happy to have (in "Off Topic").

It's hard to see what a free market would look like, we're so far away from it now ...
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rffrydr · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:05 am Post subject:

You've just condemned the insurance market--without which nothing seems to get done in the "free-market." --And our reigning market capitalist, Buffett, to boot.
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Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday!

nodoodahs · Moderator Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2408

One can't infer, from the action of the market, perfect information with regards to the nature of FREE MARKETS - because these markets ain't free, and never have been.

Markets ARE self-correcting ... eventually ... and pain is involved.

The primary impacts of meddling in the markets, making them less free, are to attempt to second-guess the self-correcting mechanism, and to make sure that someone ELSE feels the pain.

The above is a positive view. The normative view depends, I guess, on whether you value freedom and free markets as a moral good, and whether or not you're the one meddling (or supporting the meddlers) so as to feel less pain, or are on the end due to receive more paid at the meddlers' expense.

Very Happy

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I haven’t seen a beatin’ like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose.

chestnutstime · Senior Poster Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 89

The US authorities still do not get the point about this financial crisis – the markets are not self-correcting. New thinking is needed, writes George Soros.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb619d4a-00c0-11dd-a0c5-000077b07658.html

Chestnut

HenryTo · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:02 am Post subject:

I bought the 192-page e-book version a couple of hours ago and just finished it. I skipped over a couple of chapters since most of the "reflexivity" concepts have already been covered in "The Alchemy of Finance" (I went through that book five times - three times in print and twice in audio). I will devote a few paragraphs to his framework and his conclusions in this weekend's commentary.

HenryTo · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:24 am Post subject:

Link to Soros' new book (The New Paradigm for Financial Markets) - available as an e-book only at this stage:

http://www.georgesoros.com/creditcrisis08

HenryTo · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:09 am Post subject:

Thanks for posting. No doubt Soros is still one of the most influential figures in the financial markets today.

I like his last quote:

chestnutstime · Senior Poster Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 89

Soros Sees Additional Market Declines After Temporary Reprieve

"

HenryTo · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: An update on Soros

An update on Soros. Says that Alan Greenspan has lost all credibility and that he will stay active in American politics:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=awIY1sPcJkK4&refer=news_index