 |
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
U.S. Pension Crisis |
HenryTo Site Admin


Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Posts: 12109 Location: Los Angeles, California
|
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: U.S. Pension Crisis |
|
|
The more immediate effect will be felt by the workers, not the corporations as usual. That is, companies will continue to shun and dismantle DB plans going forward - thus leaving the responsibility of savings for retirement in the hands of individual workers (e.g. IBM just froze their $48 billion DB pension plan). The next effect will be felt by companies with huge pension and retiree healthcare obligations, such as GM, XOM, etc. Note that companies such as MSFT, ORCL, and INTC, etc., do not have DB pension plans. Before you invest in individual stocks, make sure that you do some research on their pension plans and understand how this will affect their balance sheets going forward.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pension Crisis Could Hit Balance Sheets
Saturday January 7, 5:56 pm ET
By Ellen Simon, AP Business Writer
Accounting Change Could Make Pension Crisis Hit Corporate Balance Sheets Over Next Five Years
NEW YORK (AP) -- The pension system is heading for a crisis, or maybe two.
The first is the most worrisome for workers: Too many pension plans aren't adequately funded or are already in default. The companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 with traditional pension plans need to put aside another $40 billion this year to fully fund the plans, according to S&P.
The second impending crisis is an accounting change that may make pension issues more painful for corporations. Accounting regulations for both pensions and retiree health care costs are poised to change in the next five years, in what could be the largest shift in accounting rules in more than 30 years.
"We believe this project will have a significant impact on evaluations, income and balance sheets, and will become the major issue in financial accounting over the next five years," said Howard Silverblatt, equity market analyst at Standard & Poor's.
The Financial Accounting and Standards Board, the arbiter of the nation's accounting rules, has said it will require companies to add their net pension and retiree-healthcare costs to their balance sheets within the next year. Then, over the next three or more years, the accounting methods for pensions and retiree-healthcare costs will also change.
The first change, which will move pension and retiree-healthcare costs from financial footnotes to balance sheets, could be dramatic, increasing companies' leverage and changing computed returns, book value and shareholder equity ratios. These ratios are closely watched, since many loans and bonds deals cap a company's leverage ratio. And the changes could be eye-popping. The aggregate drop in shareholder equity, for instance, will be 10 percent, Silverblatt wrote in a December report.
What about companies that freeze their pension obligations, as one in 10 pension plans insured by the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. did in 2003, according to the pension agency, and as International Business Machines Corp. announced it will do Thursday?
Freezing pensions benefits can obviously limit a company's liabilities, but unless the company defaults on its pension obligations, it can't walk away altogether.
"Pensions are legal obligations," Silverblatt said. "There's a guarantee."
If the company's pension plan defaults, the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp., which guarantees pensions for 44 million people, will pay retirees up to $45,614 a year.
But retiree healthcare-costs are a muddier issue.
Of the companies in the S&P 500, 337 offer some kind of medical benefits for retirees. According to Silverblatt's analysis, only 282 companies provide sufficient information for estimates about their retiree-healthcare plans. Those plans are scarily underfunded: Companies would have to set aside $292 billion to meet current obligations, according to his analysis.
The state of these funds "is extremely unsettling," Silverblatt wrote.
Unlike pensions, retiree health care costs aren't a clear-cut legal obligation, unless they're part of a contract, which is the case at Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp., where retiree healthcare-obligations are underfunded by $94 billion.
For employers where retiree health care costs aren't part of a contract, the question is what a company's legal obligation is to fulfill the plan's promises. "If a company tells it's employers, 'You have to cover 99 percent of your premium,' is that a breach?" Silverblatt asked.
No agency will step in and pay a company's retiree-healthcare costs. In the S&P 500, retiree-healthcare plans cover 12 million employees.
The discussions around both pensions and retiree health care costs will be "lively, political and complex," Silverblatt predicted.
Pensions and retiree-healthcare costs "have moved beyond individual companies," he said. "Their importance to the global economy is now self-evident."
Last edited by HenryTo on Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| Author |
U.S. Pension Crisis Replies |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Boeing going with "core earnings" in dual reporting to get outside of pension kill. _________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The poison of flattened rates is beginning to taint Wall St.'s mother's milk. State Pensions are doing math they can no longer afford to ignore. If creditors don't start being proactive they're going to win again...and loose something big down the road.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/business/how-a-plan-to-help-stockton-calif-pay-pensions-backfired.html?ref=business&_r=0
| Quote: | Alicia H. Munnell, director of the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College, looked at outcomes for nearly 3,000 pension obligation bonds issued from 1986 to 2009 and found that most were in the red. “Only those bonds issued a very long time ago and those issued during dramatic stock downturns have produced a positive return,” Ms. Munnell wrote with colleagues Thad Calabrese, Ashby Monk and Jean-Pierre Aubry. “All others are in the red.” Only one in five of the pension obligation bonds issued since 1992 has matured, so the results could change in the future.
|
_________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh don't worry there's plenty more where that came from, they only put $26B to bed--and the white-collar guys are up in arms about it, so presumably could be killed. $100B more to go. Funny how they dwarf all the others combined in that article and aren't mentioned.
Unfortunately, not just GM, but just about any other "prudent" pension fund here, and in europe, have just concentrated their bond holdings all the more. Throw in all the safety-first local governments, the Post Office, and a repo market suffocating for collateral and you've got the exact opposite of FED intentions working at counter-purposes. Mark-to-market, like I've quoted Churchill before, is like a parachute: "great when it opens!"
Things are bad enough without the bean counters bringing us low.
Assuming this goes through there's gonna be one hell of a deer-in-the-headlights moment; and then a nice new curve in the bond market when the dust clears (IMATHHO) We just might see some equities bought in for a change  _________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2422
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Makes GM's timing look even worse in retrospect ... _________________ I haven’t seen a beatin’ like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Low low rates kill. Long live low low rates. _________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2422
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2422
|
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rffrydr wrote: | http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-13/danish-bond-yields-jump-on-eased-pension-rules-copenhagen-mover.html
Hey, Bill. | Thnx. People underestimate the institutional demand for duration. _________________ I haven’t seen a beatin’ like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2422
|
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rffrydr wrote: | Nordic countries put a "floor" on their pension discount rate and, BAM, spike time. How much of our current low low rates are indicative of this curious forced buy?
Operation Twist has taken a twist. | Got a link on that Nordic outcome? Like to do some reading on it. _________________ I haven’t seen a beatin’ like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nodoodahs Moderator

Joined: 06 May 2005 Posts: 2422
|
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rffrydr wrote: | GM actually got a 5% pop today on the news it's rolling all possible WC pensions into a Pru. Annuity structure good for some $26Billion off the top. Biggest DB pensioner out there. Of course it was promptly squashed, after the market has carped about it for the last two years. Agencies only look at it as debt paydown.
GM went on "full-safe" mode last year after over two years of focus on bonds. There'll be more surprises here. Best surprise, however, would be normalized rates and curves. | My thought at the time was this is one of the worst environments to do a cash payout. The liabilities are super-high compared to where they were two years ago, or where most people probably expect them to be in another year. _________________ I haven’t seen a beatin’ like that since somebody stuck a banana in my pants and turned a monkey loose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rffrydr Moderator


Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 18544 Location: Sunny California
|
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nordic countries put a "floor" on their pension discount rate and, BAM, spike time. How much of our current low low rates are indicative of this curious forced buy?
Operation Twist has taken a twist. _________________ Today is the Tomorrow you worried about Yesterday! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Please log in to view without the ad banners |
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|